Sobre los P-3 Orion

[a615618]

Os imaginais nuestro portaaviones CV....... dejadme, dejadme que estoy...

[EJ]

No, me refiero literalmente a nada de tránsitos, simplemente orbitar sobre territorio nacional para control del espacio aéreo.
Básicamente despegar, situarse fuera de los pasillos aéreos civiles y empezar la misión, sin desplazarse a ningún lado.
Por ejemplo salir de Moron y empezar a operar sobre el estrecho por ejemplo.
Para eso no sería necesaria una velocidad elevada y la única pega sería el techo operativo.

Si, lo que comentas, posicionarse en la LED correspondiente y empezar a hacer hipodromos alli, si eso es perfectamente posible.

Otra cosa es que la plataforma te permita hacer un poquito mas, el EdA debe de tener, cierta capacidad de proyeccion, y de poder cumplir sus funciones, en la puerta de entrada, y en el 4 por ejemplo, no te voy a decir que pueda hacerlo en la planta 123, pero en 5º o en el 6º, alturas muy normales, pues creo que debe.

Pongo lo de las alturas por poner un simil vamos.

[Roberto Gutierrez Martín]

Pues podria ser que AIRBUS military quiera adelantarse a los Americanos que ya proyectan su E2D.

Evidentemente ésto nos lleva a ¿ SE PODRIA NAVALIZAR FACILMENTE ?

Pero tu sabes la envergadura que tiene este bicho???? y el peso, claro...

Respecto a sus capacidades de proyeccion, ahi si que hay que ser atlantista y apoyarse en la flota de luxemburgo.

Es evidente que para vigilar nuestras fronteras y las 200 millas es un aparato magnifico, no creo que debamos pensar mas alla, salvo por los despliegues donde los propios cazas del EdA operan cerca del teatro en bases aliadas, lo que puede incluir a estos AEW.

A ver si un CV no es necesario porque el EdA va a todos los sitios (a mesa puesta) y ahora pretendemos llegar desde aqui a china con los AEW y MPA.

Yo para hacer eso compro un CATOBAR, aunque tenga que rascar del mega grande e inutil ET.

[lateron8]

[quote="EJ"]
Otra pregunta, si no te importa, tanto en las fotos como en la maqueta del tunel de viento, aparece el domo ventral como parte de la configuracion, ¿que es lo que esta destinado a cubrir, por asi decirlo?.

Porque su funcion es bastante conocida, en las configuraciones MSA/MPA, y en esta configuracion, permanece, de ahi mi interes.[/quote]

Sin conocer el tema, me huelo que el domo ventral está ahí porque esta unidad es el prototipo de la versión de patrulla marítima y que han aprovechado la célula para llevar a cabo los ensayos en vuelo de la seta.

Un saludo

PD. Atrevida ignorancia.

[ASCUA]

Sin conocer el tema, me huelo que el domo ventral está ahí porque esta unidad es el prototipo de la versión de patrulla marítima y que han aprovechado la célula para llevar a cabo los ensayos en vuelo de la seta.

Un saludo

PD. Atrevida ignorancia.

Nos contaba tayun que se han probado dos versiones en el tunel de viento, una con y otra sin, winglets. En la foto que nos regaló, lleva winglets y da toda la impresión que tambien lleva ese domo ventral...
Digo yo que, si se han molestado en probar unos winglets, para ver que tal, lo logico es pensar que, si el domo no sirviera para nada, lo habrían quitado...
Por lo tanto alguna utilidad tendrá, digo yo...

[EJ]

The Spanish Air Force P-3 and CN-235 maritime patrol detachment in Djibouti has flown 2 000 flight hours in support of Operation Atalanta, the European Union Naval Force’s anti-piracy operation.

The European Union Naval Force (EU Navfor) announced that, since the beginning of the operation, Spain has permanently contributed a Maritime Patrol and Reconnaissance (MPRA) capability, flying more than 330 missions with both the P-3 Orion and CN-235 VIGMA aircraft.

The main tasks of the unit are to perform surface searches to locate designated or suspected vessels, mother ships and skiffs. The P-3 has also been used to assist vessels under pirate attack, alone or in coordination with other assets, such as helicopters and warships, the EU Navfor said in a statement.

The ‘Orion’ Detachment is an Expeditionary Tactical Unit, composed of 52 members from different Spanish Air Force units.

Portugal also has contributed aircraft to Atalanta. The first Portuguese P-3 arrived in Victoria, the Seychelles, to take part in Atalanta on April 21 last year. It was the first time a maritime patrol aircraft from Portugal participated in the EU Navfor operation. The aircraft arrived with 41 crew and support personnel from the Portuguese Air Force.

Portugal’s P-3 took part in Atalanta for four months, flying its last flight over the Somali Basin on August 20. The aircraft flew 320 hours, with an average of 10 flights per month, each of which lasted on average nine hours.

The P-3 joined aircraft from Sweden and Luxembourg. On March 8 last year the Swedish Coast Guard’s Bombardier Dash 8 Q300 turboprop conducted its first anti-piracy flight. It was stationed in the Seychelles for four months. It was the first time a maritime patrol aircraft from Sweden had participated in an international maritime operation.

Operation Atalanta’s main tasks are to escort merchant vessels carrying humanitarian aid of the World Food Program (WFP) and vessels of African Union Mission in Somalia (AMISOM). EU Navfor also protects vulnerable vessels in the Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean, deterring and disrupting pirate activity. The operation also monitors fishing activity off the coast of Somalia.

[BLASITO DE LEZO]

Pues podria ser que AIRBUS military quiera adelantarse a los Americanos que ya proyectan su E2D.

Evidentemente ésto nos lleva a ¿ SE PODRIA NAVALIZAR FACILMENTE ?

Por lo que evidentemente nos lleva a ¿Cuando empezamos a construir nuestro CV con 3 C-295 como alerta temprana ?

Las respuestas son faciles: NUNCA Y NO

[EJ]

Un buen relato sobre los P-3 Alemanes operand en Somalia, al lado del nuestro.

The ‘Amal’ plows along at seven knots across the glassy sea, 300 nautical miles off the coast of Somalia. But this fishing boat isn't looking for tuna or sea bream – it is controlled by pirates who have their eyes on cold hard cash.

The vessel and its crew were hijacked by Somali pirates on March 30, 2010. Since then, the pirates have been using the fishermen as human shields and the Amal (not the vessel’s real name) as a mothership for their raids. What they don't know is that their actions are being monitored from the air by the flying eye of the German Navy.

The time is 0530 hours at the French Air Force base in Djibouti, and the temperature is already 31 degrees Celsius (88 Fahrenheit). Commander Thomas Krey and his 12-man crew from the Marine Air Wing 3 Graf Zeppelin in Lower Saxony are meeting onboard the P-3C maritime patrol aircraft for a last briefing before their mission.

"We've been tracking the Amal for quite some time now. We’ll observe them from about 4,000 feet. If they shoot at us, we'll just fly higher. Happy Hunting!” wishes the tactical officer on board the 40-million-euro (58-million-dollar) high-tech aircraft.

On the way to takeoff, the plane rolls past French Mirage fighter planes, American Hercules transport planes, and French Puma helicopters. It reaches the runway at 0607 hours. The sun is beginning to rise over the Gulf of Aden, an area where one of the world’s most vulnerable shipping lanes crosses some of the waters most frequented by pirates.

Today’s mission is to locate and shadow the Amal. In charge of the operation is Alberto Manuel Silvestre Correia, the Portuguese commander of the European anti-piracy mission Atalanta.

Something suspicious on the radar

Having stocked up on weapons, ammunition, food, drinking water and several thousand liters of diesel and gasoline in Somalia, the pirates took to sea with the captured ship three days earlier and headed northeast. Now they are estimated to be 1,450 kilometers (900 miles) from the French airbase where the German aircraft are stationed.

At 10:05 a.m, a crewmember discovers a suspicious item on his radar screen. Immediately, the high-performance camera under the nose of the aircraft zooms in from a distance of 60 kilometers (37 miles). Monitors onboard the aircraft display a razor-sharp image of a traditional Arab boat, a dhow.

A man is moving around on deck, next to two speedboats covered by a tarpaulin. “Bingo! We have the Amal.”

There are no disagreements, and the tactical officer passes the information on to the rest of the crew.

The wheels of the international anti-piracy mission are finally turning. Alongside Germany, 21 EU member states as well as four non-EU countries have donated either troops or funds to the effort. The radio warns other ships in the area of the pirates' location and gives the coordinates of the hijacked ship to the Turkish frigate ‘Giresun,’ which is fighting pirates on behalf of NATO some 90 miles away.

The Turkish ship immediately sets course for the hijacked ship. An hour later, a helicopter rises from aboard the Giresun and asks the pirates via radio to throw their weapons overboard. But the pirates do not respond.

Because they have hostages onboard, storming the dhow is out of the question. The Turkish warship is left with no other choice than to shadow the pirates to prevent further incursions.

"Even though they have refused to throw their weapons overboard, these pirates no longer pose a direct threat, as they are now under observation,” says Commander Krey from a height of 7,000 meters (23,000 feet). His reconnaissance plane flies out every other day; this won't be the last he sees of the Amal pirates.

"The problem can't be solved exclusively from the air and sea,” explains Commander William Tobias Abry.

“But as long as there are no state security structures in place in Somalia, we cannot neglect the fight against piracy at sea.”

The captain and his frigate are currently accompanying a vessel belonging to the UN World Food Programme (WFP) that is shipping grain to war-torn Somalia. The protection of the WFP ships in the Gulf of Aden and off the coast of Somalia is one of the main tasks of Operation Atalanta, which has been running since December 2008.

Germany’s armed forces have been involved since the start of the operation. A total of 219 servicemen and women from the German Marine Air Wing, as well as 50 men and women from the German Army, are currently stationed onboard the frigate ‘Niedersachsen.’ They are supported by a 34-strong logistics team stationed in Djibouti.

It is likely that the German government will continue to support this operation when it comes up for vote again in December. However, the high costs of continued involvement and the frequency of pirate raids have made the subject controversial among Germans.

According to the International Maritime Bureau, 211 ships have already been attacked by pirates this year. Roughly two thirds of them have been off the coast of Somalia; 26 ships and 522 crew are currently in the hands of pirates.

"Atalanta monitors a huge area, 10 times the size of Germany. Of course we cannot be everywhere at once,” says Commander Abry. “But since the start of our operation, not a single world hunger relief ship has been attacked, and the overall number of attacks has dropped dramatically in the controlled areas. With a humanitarian mission like this, you can't do a simple cost-benefit analysis.”

Liberating the ‘Taipan’
The men onboard the reconnaissance aircraft are convinced of the usefulness of their mission. The crew recorded one of their biggest successes on Easter Monday last year. At 1330, the plane received an emergency call while patrolling off of the Somali coast. “Mayday, Mayday, Mayday. Two pirate ships are moving at high speed towards our ship,” said the message.

The call was coming from the captain of the Hamburger freighter ship ‘Taipan.’ As soon as the P-3C received the call for help, it changed its course and flew at top speed towards the distressed ship. It alerted the Dutch frigate ‘Tromp,’ which was patrolling approximately 50 nautical miles away.

With its high-resolution cameras, the German pilots observed that the crew was able to escape into their ship's security room before 10 pirates hijacked the Taipan. “We told the Dutch that the pirates were probably armed with Kalashnikovs, but that they had no hostages in their power," recalls the then-tactical duty officer. Armed with information from the German reconnaissance aircraft, the Dutch then flew a helicopter of elite soldiers to rescue the Taipan.

The pirates surrendered, and all 13 hostages were freed unharmed. The Somali pirates will now face the courts in Hamburg, and the film from the P-3C's cameras will be used as evidence. “It makes us proud that we foiled the pirates' plans, and that we saved Easter. But it also makes me angry that the pirates will now be represented by lawyers funded by German taxpayers,” added the officer.

Sometimes, though, the German crew feels helpless in its unarmed reconnaissance aircraft. "We don't actively attack the pirates, but we play an active role in the fight against piracy. With our air reconnaissance missions, we are able to provide critical data for the capture and prosecution of pirates,” says Krey.

His tactical officer adds, “I am glad that we are not armed. Violence can provoke violence, and for us, the protection of hostages is paramount.”

[EJ]

Los piratas operando a A 632 millas de la costa y encima el unico alternative possible en la zona.
De P.M. que diría el otro.
Somali pirates have been using Yemen's remote Horn of Africa island of Socotra as a refueling hub enabling their attack craft to stay restocked for longer periods at sea and pose a greater hazard to shipping, maritime sources say.
Despite an international naval presence in the region, seaborne gangs have been exploiting political turmoil in Yemen to pick up fuel, and possibly other supplies including food, sources told Reuters.
"Socotra has been used for months if not longer," said Michael Frodl, with C-LEVEL maritime risk consultancy and an adviser to Lloyd's of London underwriters, citing intelligence reports he was privy to.
"It is perhaps the most important refueling hub for hijacked merchant vessels used as motherships, especially those operating between the Gulf of Aden and India's western waters, mainly off Oman and increasingly closer to the Strait of Hormuz."
"A hijacked merchant vessel, unlike a hijacked dhow, has a voracious thirst for fuel and needs a very well stocked refueling station," Frodl said.
A Yemen government official said authorities around a month ago had captured 20 people believed to be pirates on the island and handed them over to authorities in Yemen's nearby southern port city of al-Mukalla on the mainland.
A source said separately the 20 people had been on a regular commercial ship, but added that 16 Somali pirates were taken into custody in recent days and were being detained on Socotra.
"There was a lot of piracy north of Socotra during the north east monsoon and it is likely they have been using the island," the source said. "Pirates use the beaches on the mainland not too far from Mukalla to collect fuel, and presumably other equipment."
The International Maritime Bureau (IMB) watchdog said the pirate support systems had to be promptly stopped.
"Socotra is strategically located because it is right up there against the Gulf of Aden and also along the eastern seaboard of Yemen," said IMB director Pottengal Mukundan.
"If it is true that the pirates are using Socotra, then it is an extremely disturbing development and it requires immediate investigation."
Somali gangs, who are making millions of dollars in ransoms, are becoming increasingly violent, and are able to stay out at sea for long periods and in all weather conditions using captured merchant vessels as mother ships. The crisis is costing world trade billions of dollars a year.
The group of four islands in the isolated archipelago, the largest of which is Socotra, are located due east of the Horn of Africa in the Arabian Sea, and have been administered from Yemen for much of the last two centuries.
"Socotra has been a favourite stomping ground for pirates for centuries as both Marco Polo and the great 14th century Islamic scholar and traveler Ibn Battuta attest," said J. Peter Pham, with U.S. think tank the Atlantic Council.
"A credible amount of evidence has emerged in recent years that Somali pirates have certainly taken advantage of jurisdictional issues to operate in and out of the Socotra archipelago with at least the tacit connivance of at least some Yemeni authorities."
A maritime security source said there were transactions taking place between dhows in the Socotra archipelago as well.
"In addition to fuel, these exchanges involve arms, most of which are then shipped to Puntland for distribution either to pirates or to various armed factions," the source said.
Pirates conducted several attacks in May in the Arabian Sea and some strikes in June. Maritime officials say the islands will become more difficult to reach in smaller ships until October because of wind, sea and swell conditions.
Yemen's military is believed to have a base on Socotra, maritime sources said. "If the military wanted to supply mother ships with fuel from Socotra they could. Corruption in Yemen is rife," another maritime source said.
COUNTER PIRACY
NATO said it had ships in the Horn of Africa and Gulf of Aden since March 2009 and the presence of NATO warships and other nations' navies had resulted in a significant reduction in pirate attacks in the Gulf of Aden over the past two years.
"We are not complacent and understand there is still much work to be done," a NATO spokeswoman said.
"As Yemen forms the northern coast of the Gulf of Aden and is only 200 miles from Somalia, it is feasible that the pirates could use Yemeni ports for supplies. However, we have no evidence to suggest that this is happening. Similarly with Socotra, there is no evidence to suggest it is used as a pirate hub."
Yemen, the Arab world's poorest country, has been paralysed by six months of mass protests against President Ali Abdullah Saleh's three-decade rule.
After surviving an assassination attempt last month, Saleh went to Saudi Arabia for treatment. The Arabian Peninsula country has descended into violence with militants suspected of ties to al Qaeda seizing two cities.
"In the 1990s, before there was much by way of Somali piracy, the real threat in the region was from Yemeni pirates," the Atlantic Council's Pham said.
"While they were largely put out of business by more aggressive Somali pirates as well as governmental action, in the absence of the latter, the threat could re-emerge as well."
Alan Fraser, Middle East analyst with security firm AKE, said it was unlikely that Somali pirates would have any real interest in carrying out major activities on Yemen's mainland even if the situation deteriorated.
"Tribal codes and religious values are more conservative in Yemen than in Somalia so piracy is not likely to take off in the same way," he said.

[EJ]

Junto el P-3 de la Usn, 7 helicopteros y un C-130 del USCG, se ha sumado a la búsqueda nuestro 22 ya a la vuelta de una misión de 8.5 horas, desgraciadamente se han tenido que volver en bingo sin encontrar al marinero caído del buque.
Se esta haciendo todo lo que se puede y mas por encontrarlo, pero la cosa no pinta nada bien.
U.S. Navy ships and aircraft are searching for a Sailor from USS Boxer (LHD 4) who went missing while the ship was conducting maritime security operations in the Gulf of Aden today.

The Sailor did not report to watch and after a search of the ship, man overboard was called away.

Helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft from Boxer, fixed-wing aircraft from USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76), as well as a P-3 Maritime Patrol Aircraft, are conducting an airborne search while Boxer, USNS Alan Shepard (T-AKE 3) and USS Mitscher (DDG 57) conduct a surface search.

The Sailor's name is being withheld while the search is ongoing.

[ASCUA]

Germany to Press Maritime Patrol Aircraft Pool

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =EUR&s=TOP

Independientemente de que guste o no guste... parece claro que la preocupación alemana por el "tema" dista bastante de la nuestra.

Y que yo recuerde su Baltico sigue siendo mas pequeño que nuestra Mediterraneo y nuestro Atlantico...

[EJ]

El pasado día 27 de julio, el P-3 “ORION” español del Ala 11, destacado en la Base Aérea francesa 188 de Yibuti, que está integrado en la Fuerza Aeronaval de la Unión Europea TF 465 que lucha contra la piratería en las aguas que bañan el Cuerno de África, en el marco de la Operación ATALANTA, concluyó otra exitosa misión, con una duración mayor de lo previsto, puesto que una vez cumplido el objetivo del vuelo asignado para ese día, fue requerido para asistir en una operación SAR real en el Golfo de Adén para colaborar en la búsqueda de un miembro de la tripulación del USS BOXER, portaeronaves de la US NAVY, que en su tránsito por esas aguas notificó la falta de ese tripulante en el relevo de guardia.

El dispositivo que se activó estuvo integrado por tres buques de guerra, siete helicópteros, un C-130 “HERCULES” americano y el P-3 español.

La operación de rescate no dio sus frutos a pesar de la cantidad de medios implicados, que la meteorología fuese favorable para la búsqueda, al limite de lo que el combustible permitia.

A pesar del amargo sabor de no haber podido localizar al náufrago, el esfuerzo del Destacamento ORION fue reconocido por el “Force Commander” que está embarcado en la fragata portuguesa VASCO DA GAMA, con las siguientes palabras, extraídas literalmente de su mensaje diario a la fuerza:

“ANOTHER EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE ALLOWED US TO FULFILL THE MAIN TASKS AND ALSO PROVIDE SOME ASSISTANCE TO SAR OPS IN GOA. I AM PROUD OF HAVING YOU AMONG TF 465. BZ”

Que traducido a nuestro español, viene a decir:

“OTRA ACTUACIÓN EXCELENTE QUE NOS PERMITE CUMPLIR CON NUESTRA PRINCIPAL MISIÓN Y PROPORCIONAR ASISTENCIA A LA OPERACIÓN SAR EN EL GOLFO DE ADEN. ESTOY ORGULLOSO DE TENERLES EN LA FUERZA 465. BIEN HECHO.”

En la siguiente misión, el día 29 de julio, se unió a la tripulación española el Major Moskalov de la Armada Ukraniana, navegante de Antonov 26, para ver “in situ” los procedimientos y la manera de actuar del P-3 español en este tipo de misiones, puesto que está previsto que el año que viene destaquen un avión ukraniano en la Base de Yibuti para colaborar en la Operación ATALANTA.

Es la primera vez que un tripulante de este país vuela en un P-3 español, por lo que el evento fue inmortalizado después del vuelo y se efectuó un brindis con Vozka ukraniano aromatizado con guindillas, siendo esto último otro nuevo hito en el Destacamento, difícil de olvidar.

[EJ]

Germany to Press Maritime Patrol Aircraft Pool

Ellos de momento presionan en el sentido que les interesa, pero hay que tener en cuenta que nuestra problematica y la suya, son bien distintas, hay elementos comunes, pero hay elementos que difieren en mucho.

Ademas estan teniendo problemas inesperados con la plataforma, que les estan trayendo a mal traer.

[albertovl]

esta ya en labores de pruebas de combustible y trenes de aterrizaje mas todo el equipo avionico y un largo etc etc, el avion P3B-08.

se le ha realizado una gran revision y reparacion sobre todo en estructura y tambien una gran modificacion (nuevos equipos, de todas formas en tema de "chispas" no estoy muy puesto)

sabeis si una vez entregado al EdA pasara a ser denominado P3 M o seguira P3 B???

[EJ]

esta ya en labores de pruebas de combustible y trenes de aterrizaje mas todo el equipo avionico y un largo etc etc, el avion P3B-08.

se le ha realizado una gran revision y reparacion sobre todo en estructura y tambien una gran modificacion (nuevos equipos, de todas formas en tema de "chispas" no estoy muy puesto)

sabeis si una vez entregado al EdA pasara a ser denominado P3 M o seguira P3 B???

El 08 que es el 22-31 sera P-3.M, el tercero Y ULTIMO de los P-3.M.

Resultado final, 11 años para conseguir finalente 3 aviones de los 5 previstos.

No esta nada mal, todo un record.

OJO, FECHA DE SALIDA DICIEMBRE 2011, o al menos asi deberia de ser.

Tambien el P-3A.03, que es el 22-21, DEBERIA DE HABER SALIDO EUN JUNIO, hace ya casi 3 meses.