Programa FX-2 de cazas para Brasil

[JoãoBR]

El nuevo Ministro de Defensa Celso Amorim, habló, en entrevista a Folha de São Paulo, sobre el Programa FX2:
...
Folha - E os caças, vêm ou não vêm?

Os caças terão que vir. Achava isso como ministro das Relações Exteriores e continuo achando agora como ministro da Defesa. Mas o momento exato ainda não dá para dizer.

Folha - Nisso, o sr. e o ministro Jobim combinam? Ambos querem os Rafale franceses?

Havia um problema de preços e toda uma discussão sobre transferência de tecnologia. Naquela época, no governo Lula, parecia que o que tinha mais condições de fazer essa transferência era o francês. Se ainda é, não sei, porque não acompanhei o desenrolar das discussões sobre isso e sobre uma renegociação de preços.

Folha - Naquele momento, o recuo não foi por causa de cortes no Orçamento, mas sim a chateação do presidente Lula porque o Sarkozy tirou o tapete do Brasil na discussão sobre Irã na ONU?

O presidente Lula disse isso para você? Para mim não disse...
...
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/poder/957121-amorim-rebate-criticas-e-defende-general-do-exercito.shtml

Saludos.

[Anderson]

Respetados foristas... Jaque al rey!

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1881

Boeing to showcase Super Hornet simulator to Brazilian Congress and public.

BRASILIA, Brazil, Aug. 15, 2011

Boeing today announced that its Defense, Space & Security (BDS) business unit will showcase the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Block II simulator inside the National Congress Building in Brasília from Aug. 16 through 19. The Brazilian public will be able to fly the simulator and see the advanced technology inside the Super Hornet.

On Aug. 18, Boeing will participate in a public hearing organized by the National Defense Committee of the Brazilian Senate to discuss the Super Hornet's capabilities and how it meets the Brazilian Air Force's requirements, as well as technology transfer and industrial partnership.
"We look forward to answering any questions that the Brazilian senators may have in regard to Boeing's Super Hornet offering in the F-X2 fighter competition," said Joe McAndrew, BDS vice president of International Business Development for Europe, Israel and the Americas. "In addition to helping Brazil achieve air dominance, Boeing can be a strategic partner in several areas, including education, biofuels, satellites, unmanned systems, networking, and critical infrastructure protection."

The simulator includes a front and rear cockpit and demonstrates the capabilities of the single-seat E model and the two-seat F model. Its 180-degree projection screen offers virtual-reality visibility of cities, forests, roads and buildings, as well as enemy aircraft. The system is capable of demonstrating simulated aerial combat and air-to-ground targeting, navigation, and mission systems operation. Operators also can practice landing on and taking off from runways or an aircraft carrier.

The Super Hornet strike fighter is in service with the U.S. Navy and the Royal Australian Air Force and is currently one of the finalists in Brazil’s F-X2 fighter competition. The Super Hornet offers Brazil a winning combination of price and capability with advanced technology, high mission readiness, low life-cycle costs, low program risk, production availability, industrial benefits, and technology transfer.

[Brasil]

Respetados foristas... Jaque al rey!

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=1881

Boeing to showcase Super Hornet simulator to Brazilian Congress and public.

BRASILIA, Brazil, Aug. 15, 2011

Boeing today announced that its Defense, Space & Security (BDS) business unit will showcase the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet Block II simulator inside the National Congress Building in Brasília from Aug. 16 through 19. The Brazilian public will be able to fly the simulator and see the advanced technology inside the Super Hornet.

On Aug. 18, Boeing will participate in a public hearing organized by the National Defense Committee of the Brazilian Senate to discuss the Super Hornet's capabilities and how it meets the Brazilian Air Force's requirements, as well as technology transfer and industrial partnership.
"We look forward to answering any questions that the Brazilian senators may have in regard to Boeing's Super Hornet offering in the F-X2 fighter competition," said Joe McAndrew, BDS vice president of International Business Development for Europe, Israel and the Americas. "In addition to helping Brazil achieve air dominance, Boeing can be a strategic partner in several areas, including education, biofuels, satellites, unmanned systems, networking, and critical infrastructure protection."

The simulator includes a front and rear cockpit and demonstrates the capabilities of the single-seat E model and the two-seat F model. Its 180-degree projection screen offers virtual-reality visibility of cities, forests, roads and buildings, as well as enemy aircraft. The system is capable of demonstrating simulated aerial combat and air-to-ground targeting, navigation, and mission systems operation. Operators also can practice landing on and taking off from runways or an aircraft carrier.

The Super Hornet strike fighter is in service with the U.S. Navy and the Royal Australian Air Force and is currently one of the finalists in Brazil’s F-X2 fighter competition. The Super Hornet offers Brazil a winning combination of price and capability with advanced technology, high mission readiness, low life-cycle costs, low program risk, production availability, industrial benefits, and technology transfer.

jajaja, muy buena essa de boeing!


Saludos

[Mauricio]

El novelón continúa... que si, que no, que tal vez...

[Cartaphilus]

A todo esto, ¿de qué números estamos hablando a la hora de imaginar qué pretende contratar Brasil para su siempre postergado concurso de aviones de combate? ¿90? ¿120 unidades?

[OliverBR]

http://www.defesanet.com.br/fx2/noticia ... mo-ao-Nada

[SAETA2003]

A todo esto, ¿de qué números estamos hablando a la hora de imaginar qué pretende contratar Brasil para su siempre postergado concurso de aviones de combate? ¿90? ¿120 unidades?

Se pretende adquirir 36 unidades

[Cartaphilus]

¿Y para 36 tristes unidades tanto ruido? España contrató sus 72 F-18 tras un discreto concurso que se resolvió en un par de años.

[Brasil]

¿Y para 36 tristes unidades tanto ruido? España contrató sus 72 F-18 tras un discreto concurso que se resolvió en un par de años.

Es porque es 36 para el primer lote. En susticion al Mirage 2000C. El potencial para el concurso es de 120 unidades, para sustituicion de los AMX-M y F-5M que sairan de linea mas tarde

Tanbien se pretiende comprar 24 unidades del mismo caza para la Armada.

Crees que las empresas estarian se matando por 36 aviones? Saludos

Saludos

[thomcat]

¿Y para 36 tristes unidades tanto ruido? España contrató sus 72 F-18 tras un discreto concurso que se resolvió en un par de años.

Lo que dicen es que hipoteticamente seria solo el inicio del pedido de muchas mas unidades , que podrian superar los cien aparatos , pero al paso que van , no se sabe que final tendra esta novela que ya mas se parece a las novelas americanas que no terminan nunca , saludos.

[Brasil]

Brazil: Drawn-out contest to win contract causes casualties

Financial Times 12 Setembro 2011



By Samantha Pearson

It was at the 80th birthday celebrations of a former president in late June when it all started to go wrong for Nelson Jobim, then Brazil’s defence minister.

He was quoted as saying he was surrounded by “idiots” – a comment he later claimed was directed at journalists.

After a series of other blunders, including admitting that he had voted for President Dilma Rousseff’s opponent in last year’s election, he was forced to resign in August.

For US-based Boeing, Sweden’s Saab and Dassault of France, Mr Jobim’s exit is the latest in a series of setbacks to a $5bn deal to build 36 fighter jets for the air force.

The three companies were selected in September 2008 as finalists to win the contract, but after political upheavals and budget concerns, they will now have to wait until next year for a decision.

At a time when business for these companies has plunged across developed markets, the chance to help Brazil upgrade its ageing fleet of fighter jets is worth fighting for.

While the contract itself is likely to be worth about $5bn, Brazil could increase the order to more than 100 aircraft over the next 15 years. Maintenance contracts spanning decades should be particularly lucrative.

However, as the example of the past three years goes to show, doing business in emerging markets, and even in relatively politically stable ones such as Brazil, is often a challenge.

Until the beginning of this year, France’s Dassault had looked like a clear winner, with its 50-foot-long Rafale model. Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, Brazil’s previous president, had strong ties with President Nicolas Sarkozy of France and after signing a multibillion-dollar defence agreement with France in December 2008, Mr Lula declared Dassault as the preferred choice.

Given that Mr Jobim was defence minister under Mr Lula and continued in his position when Ms Rousseff took over in January this year, accepting Dassault’s bid appeared a mere formality for the new president.

The Rafale has been used by the French air force since 2006 in a string of combat missions in Afghanistan, but the deal with Brazil would have been the first time it had been sold abroad.

However, Ms Rousseff made it clear that all bets were off when she took office. She has since pursued stronger political ties with the US and, after a visit by President Barack Obama in March, Boeing has become the new favourite with its F-18 Super Hornet.

The Super Hornet, which is powered by General Electric engines, first flew in the US in 2007 and is reported to carry a lower price tag than Dassault’s Rafale.

Analysts say the departure of Mr Jobim a few weeks ago may also boost Boeing’s chances of winning the contract, as it distances the new government further from the promises made to Dassault under Mr Lula.

“We think it’s a level playing field and that when we are judged on our merits, we will prevail,” says Joe McAndrew, Boeing Defense, Space & Security’s vice-president of international business development for Europe, Israel and the Americas.

Celso Amorim, Brazil’s new defence minister, has not yet made any public statements on the contract, but all three companies have recently been asked to present their bids again to the Senate and confirm their pricing is still valid.

To add to the confusion, Brazil’s government said in July it would have to postpone the final decision to early 2012 in order to focus on “the domestic agenda”.

Concerns over the impact of the global financial crisis and rising inflation, which is now running above target at 7.1 per cent a year, has put pressure on the government to cut spending.

However, the difficulty for Dassault, Boeing and Saab, is that the longer the contract has been delayed, the more the government’s priorities have changed, explains Nelson During, a military expert who runs a specialist magazine called Defesanet.

“The issue today is no longer about which is technically the best aircraft,” Mr During says. “The contract is changing and the focus now is much more about which manufacturer can offer more benefits to Brazil’s industry.”

Since the finalists were selected in September 2008, Brazil’s currency has soared more than 40 per cent against the dollar, damaging exporters’ competitiveness and crippling parts of the domestic industry.

“The defence sector offers a real alternative for the country to avoid a scenario of ‘deindustrialisation’,” ex­plains Orlando José Ferreira Neto, a vice-president at Embraer, the aviation group and head of the Brazilian Defence and Security Industries Association.

For this reason, the bidders have started to stress the “technology transfer” aspects of their bids.

In August, Boeing said it would provide a full transfer of technology if it won the contract, enabling Brazil to produce fully the Super Hornet.

Saab has made similar pledges if Brazil agrees to buy its Gripen aircraft. The Swedish company plans to produce up to 80 per cent of the structure of the aircraft in Brazil and also transfer intellectual property rights to local companies.

“Brazil has an enormous interest in technological innovation and we see Brazil as a long-term partner,” says Bengt Janér, Saab’s director for Brazil.

However, the small size of Sweden’s export market compared with the US may ultimately favour Boeing, especially as all three companies are presenting relatively similar aircraft and proposals.

As Dassault’s experience shows, being the favourite does not necessarily mean emerging the winner.

Fonte: Financial Times, via DefesaNet.

[PauloRick]

SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 24TH 2011
Brasil prefere o Rafale, mas não pode comprar




O Brasil afirmou à França que é “incapaz de se comprometer com a compra de aviões de guerra, qualquer um que seja”, mas confirmou que se precisasse escolher, o favorecido seria o Rafale.

Este lembrete foi feito durante uma reunião entre a presidente Dilma Rousseff e o presidente francês Nicolas Sarkozy, na Assembleia Geral das Nações Unidas, informou uma fonte do Palácio do Eliseu.

Na reunião, Dilma repetiu que o Brasil “não está em condições de se comprometer com a compra de aviões de guerra”. A Presidência francesa acrescentou que a presidente brasileira confirmou que, caso a situação mude e essa escolha tenha que ser feita, será em favor do Rafale, o avião de combate da Dassault Aviation.

A empresa ainda não conseguiu exportar seu avião de guerra polivalente.

http://planobrasil.com/2011/09/22/brasi ... e-comprar/

[f.plaza]

¿no pueden comprar 36 aviones y andan haciendo planes mastodónticos de inversiones en la armada? ¿comprando un submarino nuclear que con suerte va a estar activo tres meses al año y que va a devorar los presupuestos de la armada brasileña?

¿y parece ser que les gusta el rafale porque además de bueno tiene también una versión naval? Pues si, la tiene pero es una versión CATOBAR y creo que con eso queda todo dicho.

[Zabopi]

¡hola! aquí juran y rejuran que el año que viene adquirirán el Rafale.
http://cazasyhelicopteros.blogspot.com/2011/09/rousseff-confirma-sarkozy-que-brasil.html

[Cartaphilus]

Es porque es 36 para el primer lote. En susticion al Mirage 2000C. El potencial para el concurso es de 120 unidades, para sustituicion de los AMX-M y F-5M que sairan de linea mas tarde

Tanbien se pretiende comprar 24 unidades del mismo caza para la Armada.

Crees que las empresas estarian se matando por 36 aviones? Saludos

Saludos

En España las empresas también se mataban por ser el ganador del programa FACA. Mc.Donnell ofrecía el F-18 y el F-15, Northrop el F-5E, Grumman el F-14, Lockheed el F-16, PANAVIA el Tornado y Dassault el Mirage 2000. Entre 1979 y 1982 se hicieron las negociaciones y los pilotos españoles probaron todos esos aviones, y en 1983 ya se había formado el contrato para los Hornet. Todo con naturalidad y eficiencia. Veamos cómo se hacen las cosas en Brasil:

- En 2001 se hace evidente que los Mirage III exigen un reemplazo, y se convoca el concurso F-X. Pero se decide que es "mejor" posponerlo y comprar en 2005 una docena de Mirage 2000 de segunda mano.

- En 2007 se decide reabrir el proyecto como F-X2. Se reciben propuestas, y el 2008 la lista de candidatos se reduce al gripen, el Rafale y el Super Hornet.

- En 2009 se anuncia que se inician negociaciones por parte del Ministerio de Defensa para comprar 36 Rafales.

- Y poco después, en 2010, se filtra la noticia de que el favorito de los militares es el Gripen NG.

- En 2011 se declara que la decisión se pospone por falta de presupuesto.

- Y así estamos hoy, diez años después de que se decidiese empezar a pensar el reemplazo de los Mirage III, sin nada decidido, y viendo cada vez más claro que el FX-2 será un refrito de F-5E modernizados de distinta procedencia (brasileños, estadounidenses, jordanos) de finales de los 70 y principios de los 80.


Una historia deliciosamente macondiana.