Trivial - Historia de la Humanidad hasta 1945

[vonneumann]

Me dice al menos si la data histórica es correcta??

Anorges se acerca más que Nimrod.


Hizo prisionero a todo un Cónsul de Roma.

[de guiner]

Me lee en secreto

En cuanto a lo de creador de la "formación característica", ya verá, ya.

[carlos perez llera]

Jantipo

[de guiner]

Ese no creó nada.

[vonneumann]

:asombro3:
Me lee en secreto

Ya le se lo dije:

En cuanto a lo de creador de la "formación característica", ya verá, ya.

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_tunis.html

After the Roman invasion of Africa in 256, Carthage was close to defeat in the First Punic War. With a Roman army on African soil, Carthage even began negotiations in 256 BC, but the Roman terms were harsher than those eventually agreed on fifteen years later, and Carthage refused them. Over the winter of 255 Carthage reformed her defeated army, importing a group of Greek mercenaries, amongst whom was the Spartan Xanthippus, who after making noisy public criticism of the defeated Punic commanders was appointed as a military advisor. Hellenistic warfare was much more professional than either Roman or Punic, and Xanthippus appears to have been able to train the Carthaginian army to a much higher standard than before. Finally, Carthage was able to field an army of 12,000 infantry, 4,000 cavalry and 100 elephants, probably equal in size to the Roman army.

The Roman army under Marcus Atilius Regulus was based at Tunis. Faced by the resurgent Carthaginian army Regulus was keen to gain another victory rather than risk the chance that someone else would get the glory of eventual victory. Xanthippus is credited with the Carthaginian formation, with a hastily raised phalanx of civilians in the centre, mercenary infantry on their right and a line of elephants in front of the infantry, with the cavalry split between the two wings. The Romans were formed in their normal formation, with the legionary infantry in the centre and the outnumbered cavalry on the wings.

The Carthaginians started the battle with an attack by the elephants. This tied up the main force of Roman infantry. The Roman cavalry, outnumbered four to one, was quickly defeated. Only on their left did the Romans have any success, where 2,000 troops, possibly allied troops, defeated the mercenaries facing them, and chasing them back past to their camp. Meanwhile, in the centre the elephant attack had been withstood, but only a few isolated units of Roman infantry managed to get past them to attempt to attack the Carthaginian phalanx, and they were quickly defeated. Finally, the Carthaginian cavalry charged the already shaken Romans from both sides, destroying what cohesion was left. Only the 2,000 troops successful earlier in the battle escaped, to be rescued by the Roman fleet. Regulus himself was taken prisoner. The defeat, and a serious disasters in storms at sea, ended any chance that Rome would defeat Carthage in Africa, and made sure that the rest of the war was fought on Sicily and at sea.

The Punic Wars, Adrian Goldsworthy. An excellent work which covers all three Punic wars. Strong on both the land and naval elements of the wars.

Ya sé que a VM no le gustan la lenguas bárbaras, pero ahí dice que el crédito por la formación cartaginesa es de Jantipo.

Parece ser que Don Valerio lo sabía, pero ha sido su odalisca quien lo ha dicho:

Bente 3
Carlos 3
Valerio 1
Vonneumann 1

Su turno.

[de guiner]

pero ahí dice que ...

Claro, como lo dice ahí...

Pues sepa VM que lo pensaba mencionar pero ahora con dos líneas despacho lo de Bagradas.

Ya sé que a VM no le gustan la lenguas bárbaras

Tome, en lengua culta:

Mucho se ha debatido sobre si Jántipo introdujo o no la falange macedonia en el sistema militar cartaginés, prevaleciendo más bien la opción negativa

http://anabasis-historica.blogspot.com. ... mpana.html

Y conste que no estoy de acuerdo en algunas cosas.

[vonneumann]

Tome, en lengua culta:

Mucho se ha debatido sobre si Jántipo introdujo o no la falange macedonia en el sistema militar cartaginés, prevaleciendo más bien la opción negativa

http://anabasis-historica.blogspot.com. ... mpana.html

Y conste que no estoy de acuerdo en algunas cosas.

Eso no es lengua culta, es latin provinciano. ¡Si hasta tiene influecias de esos zarrapastrosos vascones, hombre!


Además:

Se le considera el creador de la que fué la formación característica de la ciudad a la que sirvió.[/b]

¿Pusé yo que fué el creador?¿O que se le considera universalmente el creador? No. Pues con que una sola persona lo considere el creador de dicha formación la pista es correcta.

[de guiner]

Bueno, en lo tocante a mi cordura y lo del latín provinciano no tengo nada que objetar. Pero que VM es un sofista marrullero de medio pelo...

[carlos perez llera]

:asombro3:
Me lee en secreto

Ya le se lo dije:

[ Imagen ]

En cuanto a lo de creador de la "formación característica", ya verá, ya.

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/battles_tunis.html

After the Roman invasion of Africa in 256, Carthage was close to defeat in the First Punic War. With a Roman army on African soil, Carthage even began negotiations in 256 BC, but the Roman terms were harsher than those eventually agreed on fifteen years later, and Carthage refused them. Over the winter of 255 Carthage reformed her defeated army, importing a group of Greek mercenaries, amongst whom was the Spartan Xanthippus, who after making noisy public criticism of the defeated Punic commanders was appointed as a military advisor. Hellenistic warfare was much more professional than either Roman or Punic, and Xanthippus appears to have been able to train the Carthaginian army to a much higher standard than before. Finally, Carthage was able to field an army of 12,000 infantry, 4,000 cavalry and 100 elephants, probably equal in size to the Roman army.

The Roman army under Marcus Atilius Regulus was based at Tunis. Faced by the resurgent Carthaginian army Regulus was keen to gain another victory rather than risk the chance that someone else would get the glory of eventual victory. Xanthippus is credited with the Carthaginian formation, with a hastily raised phalanx of civilians in the centre, mercenary infantry on their right and a line of elephants in front of the infantry, with the cavalry split between the two wings. The Romans were formed in their normal formation, with the legionary infantry in the centre and the outnumbered cavalry on the wings.

The Carthaginians started the battle with an attack by the elephants. This tied up the main force of Roman infantry. The Roman cavalry, outnumbered four to one, was quickly defeated. Only on their left did the Romans have any success, where 2,000 troops, possibly allied troops, defeated the mercenaries facing them, and chasing them back past to their camp. Meanwhile, in the centre the elephant attack had been withstood, but only a few isolated units of Roman infantry managed to get past them to attempt to attack the Carthaginian phalanx, and they were quickly defeated. Finally, the Carthaginian cavalry charged the already shaken Romans from both sides, destroying what cohesion was left. Only the 2,000 troops successful earlier in the battle escaped, to be rescued by the Roman fleet. Regulus himself was taken prisoner. The defeat, and a serious disasters in storms at sea, ended any chance that Rome would defeat Carthage in Africa, and made sure that the rest of the war was fought on Sicily and at sea.

The Punic Wars, Adrian Goldsworthy. An excellent work which covers all three Punic wars. Strong on both the land and naval elements of the wars.

Ya sé que a VM no le gustan la lenguas bárbaras, pero ahí dice que el crédito por la formación cartaginesa es de Jantipo.

Parece ser que Don Valerio lo sabía, pero ha sido su odalisca quien lo ha dicho:

Bente 3
Carlos 3
Valerio 1
Vonneumann 1

Su turno.

Perdón, me equivoqué, repase la pag 611..
Llevo 4...

[vonneumann]

¿Como? ¡Yo soy un sofista marrullero de primera!

Retire eso de medio pelo o le mando a mis padrinos. Uno en persona, para exigir una satisfacción, el otro en trozos, por correo ordinario, en varias entregas.

Perdón, me equivoqué, repase la pag 611..
Llevo 4...

Lleva 3

Bente 3
Carlos 3
Valerio 2
Vonneumann 1

Turno para don Valerio, que aunque no la ha dicho se la sabía. Así aprende VM a estar más atento a sus puntos.

Y si no le gusta, recuerde:

¿Ibrahim bajá?

Efectivamente, caballero, Ibrahim Bajá...
Máximo mandatario de Egipto durante 2 meses, su papi guerreó contra Napoleón y el anduvo en Creta con barcos y gente, de conquistas...
Bente 3
carlos 2
valerio 1
Vonneumann 1
manda vm...

No me de el mando que lo cojo y no lo suelto, como Don Claudio.

[carlos perez llera]

Einss??
Estoy atento a mis puntos, cometí una equivocación al pasarlos en la última ronda...
Gana el Maese??
Aparte de retirarse a medio juego, cual gallinica asustada ahora sabemos que los demás sabían??
Jodó...
Es vm una eminencia en adivinación...
Pués nada, póngasela al Maese, hombre,,,
Ah, de odalisca, nada...
Amante..
¿queda claro?
Y yo por mis amores, ma to...
Un saludo cordial Vonneumann (obviamente es todo broma, decide tú)

[vonneumann]

Odalisca, que aún me debe un baile de los siete velos.

En cuanto a los puntos, seguro que Don Valerio "El Magnánimo" dice que aunque sabía la respuesta le cede el punto para darle más emoción al juego:

Carlos 4
Bente 3
Valerio "El magnánimo" 1
Vonneumann "El Sofista Marrullero Número Uno" 1

Su turno.

Menudo lío de puntos estoy montando, jo, jo, jo, jo.....

Postdada: el foro se venga de mí haciendo que tenga que reescribir mis mensajes.

[carlos perez llera]

Se mete Vm solito en los charcos, y a escribir 2 veces...
Militar republicano fusilado al poco de comenzar la Guerra civil

[vonneumann]

Antes de liarla ya me lo hacía. Tengo que copiar mis mensajes, por si acaso.

¿Domingo Batet Mestre?

Edito: ¿Domingo Batet Mestres?

[carlos perez llera]

No, caballero, pacense de nacimiento, de menor graduación que el citado por vos