Reviviendo este tema que se pondra muy pronto muy interesante:
Se vendieron 4 Lupo: BAP Aguirre (ex-Orsa), BAP Palacios (ex-Lupo), BAP Bolognesi (ex-Perseo) y BAP Quiñónes (ex-Sagitario), de estas 3 ya estan en el Peru, estando el BAP Quiñones en camino al Callao, se espera su arribo en Enero del 2007.
old escribió: ↑20 Dic 2006, 19:19
El Cavour es muy bonito pero no se con qué lo van a escoltar...
Gracias,
Lo vamos a escoltar con las nuevas fragatas FREMM y los nuevos submarinos U-212A.
El Cavour y el Doria tomarán servicio en 2008. Y el primer sub Todaro esta in servicio.
Y en 2009 tendemos tamben el segundo Orizzonte y el segundo U212A.
"El submarino es parte de un grupo aeronaval. No necessariamente tenes de ser por escolta."
Según y como.
Pero has sido tú, European, el que has incluido a los nuevos submarinos de la MMI en el grupo de escolta del Cavour, no yo.
Y si era en serio, ya me contarás cómo y contra qué puede un submarino convencional escoltar un portaaeronaves.
pablo1 escribió:"El submarino es parte de un grupo aeronaval. No necessariamente tenes de ser por escolta."
Según y como.
Pero has sido tú, European, el que has incluido a los nuevos submarinos de la MMI en el grupo de escolta del Cavour, no yo. Y si era en serio, ya me contarás cómo y contra qué puede un submarino convencional escoltar un portaaeronaves.
Un saludo,
Pablo.
Nella nuova vision estrategica el sub es parte del CVBG por escolta y otro.
Aqui download el file pdf:
Escoltar al Cavour con U-212?Y tu eras el que achacabas al BPE ser mas lento que un elefante?Lo digo porque los treintayalgo nudos del Cavour si le va a escoltar un 212 acaban en menos de 10,y si encima ése U-212 quiere usar sus sensores con calidad suficiente(para detectar submarinos sin ser detectado y etcetra) pues todo el grupo de portaaviones acaba a mas o menos 5 nudos.Impresionante,eh?
Los únicos submarinos capaces de escoltar de forma sostenida a un grupo de superficie sin bajar de los 20 nudos(que por lo demas es una velocidad sostenida considerable en el mar)son los SSN,punto y final.
"Guarda con ello, como un tesoro, los nombres de los miles de héroes que cayeron por Marruecos y no contra Marruecos". General Alfredo Paniagua.
El U212A va a ser parte del CVBG del Cavour. No tenes de ser siempre escolta.
Fecha tecnica sobre Cavour:
Radar
- Alenia Marconi Systems RAN-40L: three-dimensional (3D) long range naval air search and surveillance radar; derived from the RAT-31D/L series of land-based radar systems; D-band: solid-state Tx/Rx; 300+ km range.
- Alenia Marconi Systems SPY-790 EMPAR: multi-function rotating frequency-agile passive phased-array radar; G-band (C-band); 3D – three dimensional; 150+ km range; used for long and medium range volumetric air, low-altitude and surface search, surveillance, target detection, designation, tracking and fire-control with up-link transmission for guidance of Aster active radar surface-to-air missiles; multiple simultaneous target tracking and missile guidance capability (up to 30 missiles in the air); 300 target tracking capability; part of the Eurosam SAAM-IT air defence system; also installed on the future Andrea Doria class AAW frigates.
- Alenia Marconi Systems SPS-791 RASS (RAN-30X/I): multi-mode medium/short-range surface, low-altitude and air search and surveillance radar; X-band; can be used for air and surface surveillance (100km range), navigation and helicopter control (40km range), over-the-horizon surface surveillance (180 km range) and anti-sea-skimmer missile detection and tracking (23km range); cosecant square and pencil beams; up to 250 tracks; can house IFF antenna; also installed on the future Andrea Doria class AAW ships and as the main radar on the recent Cigala Fulgosi and Sirio class corvette/helicopter OPV, and Nave ETNA (AOR/LSV).
- Two Alenia Marconi Systems SIR-R/S: fully solid-state automatic interrogator (IFF); will be fitted on RAN-40L.
- GEM Elettronica SPN-753(v)4 navigation radar.
- GEM Elettronica SPN-41 navigation and aircraft control radar.
Other sensor
- Mine avoidance sonar (bow) supplied by Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subacquei (WASS)
- Sagem VAMPIR-MB IRAS (Infra-Red Alerting System) for E/O air and surface surveillance
- Euroslat SLAT anti-torpedo towed array sensor
Communications
integrated internal and external communications system (including SHF/UHF satellite communications systems); SATCOM terminals for Italian SICRAL Military Communications Satellite system; tactical communications for command and control of landing/amphibious forces; 2x Link 11; one Link 16 (MIDS/JTIDS); provision for Link 22/NILE (NATO Improved Link Eleven)
CMS
Combat Management System: Integrated data/weapons combat command and control system, with extensive C4I (Command, Control, Communications, Computer and Intelligence) capabilities developed by CMS Italia (Alenia Marconi Systems and Datamat); based on the IPN/S series; very similar to the other CMS installed on the future Andrea Doria class AAW destroyers (as part of the Italian/French “Horizon” air-defense frigate program) and Bergamini class multipurpose frigates (FREMM program); modular open distributed architecture.
Operational Combat Center: The COC (Centrale Operativa di Combattimento - Operational Combat Center) will have a superficy of more than 1'100 m2 (latest info: 1’250 m2), including at least 600 m2 for the management of naval and amphibious operations, at least 300 m2 for the air operations and a minimum of 200 m2 for the Communications and EW systems; around 25 main multifunction consoles and workstations.
Flag/Command Functions: There will be space and accommodations for a flag/command staff of between 145 and 230 people, with a comprehensive integrated communications system, tactical intelligence and operational information management systems, and command and decision aid support systems, enabling the ship to function as a flagship for a Naval Task Force (COMITMARFOR), an Italian or multinational Joint Task Force HQ, or an MCC (Maritime Component Command); around 150 multifunction consoles and workstations
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The ability to provide extensive C4I capabilities (Command, Control, Communications, Computer, Intelligence) for the management of maritime and joint forces is one of the primary requirements of Nave CAVOUR. The development, production, installation, integration and testing of the ship’s Combat Management System (CMS) have been the object, among other systems and equipments, of the 2nd and 3rd NUM contracts. CMS Italia (Alenia Marconi Systems – Naval Systems Division and DATAMAT S.p.A.) is responsible for that part of the contract.
The CMS installed on Nave CAVOUR is a significantly expanded variant (particularly to include flag/staff, air and amphibious operations command and control capabilities) of the CMS that has been developed by Italian and French engineers for their future AAW frigates (Andrea Doria class / HORIZON program), itself largely based on the SENIT-8 system already fitted to the French 40’000-tonne nuclear-powered aircraft carrier CHARLES DE GAULLE.
As part of its requirements, the CMS must be able to provide an accurate picture of the tactical situation over a radius of 350 km around the aircraft carrier, by collecting and processing data provided by the ship’s own sensors as well as by the other naval, joint and allied assets (ships, aircrafts, satellites, troops, higher-command structures).
The main COC/CIC (Combat Information Centre) is located in a protected area, in the central part of the ship/hull, under the flight-deck and island. It’s worth noting that the CIC on both Nave GARIBALDI and the French CVN CHARLES DE GAULLE has been installed in the island. Why this change? There were at least three main reasons. The first was to have the CIC located in a position that would be as safe and protected as possible. The second reason has to do with finding a sufficient space given the planned dimensions of the area occupied by the CIC, expected to reach at least twice the size of the CIC installed on Nave GARIBALDI. Even if the necessary space could have been found for the CIC in the island, that would have required a significantly larger superstructure, and consequently less available space for aircrafts on the flight deck. And that constitutes the third reason why the CIC isn’t located in the island, that is to make the superstructure as small as possible in order to maximise the dimensions of the deck area available for aircrafts. The gained space in the island benefits the facilities dedicated to the main/command bridge (third deckhouse) and aircraft flight control bride (fourth deckhouse).
The CIC will occupy an overall area of 1’100 m2 for the management of all types of maritime and joint operations, including:
- Naval and Amphibious operations: 600 m2
- Air operations: 300 m2
- Communications and EW operations: 200 m2
As far as the “hardware” of the CMS and the CIC are concerned, also available to an embarked Command Staff, it would include the following elements:
- A total of around 150 multi-function consoles and workstations
- 15 large displays presenting the tactical situation
- 25 multi-function consoles for the management of the ship’s combat system
- 90 workstations with JMCIS (Joint Maritime Command Information System)
- 20 ruggedised consoles with JMCIS
The JMCIS is in particular designed to work with the similar C3 systems in service with the Italian Air Force (AMI) and the Italian Army (EI), in order to fully support the command of a joint operation. Three Italian warships are currently fitted with a significant number of JMCIS workstations: the aircraft carrier GIUSEPPE GARIBALDI, the amphibious assault ship SAN GIUSTO, and the fleet logistic support ship ETNA.
Dernière modification par European (Aujourd'hui 21:11:38)
European escribió:El U212A va a ser parte del CVBG del Cavour. No tenes de ser siempre escolta.
European, mi referencia a la velocidad venia por el hecho de que una fuerza naval,cualquier fuerza naval,tiene como velocidad media la velocidad media de los buques más lentos que componen el grupo.Y el U-212 casi que no navega a 20 nudos sostenidos,verdad?
Pues eso.Si me dices que el U-212 puede navegar con el Cavour,OK,simplemente pueden hacerlo muchos otros submarinos convencionales,pero ninguno puede mantener el ritmo de ese grupo de tarea y solo los SSN pueden hacerlo(y con cortapisas,porque no pueden sacar el mayor rendimiento de sus sensores y al ir a esas velocidades segun a que profundidad cavitan)
"Guarda con ello, como un tesoro, los nombres de los miles de héroes que cayeron por Marruecos y no contra Marruecos". General Alfredo Paniagua.
Claro Kalma.
Nosotros no tenemos SSN. Si se va a hazer un CVBG (muy dificil politicamente) el sub es importante. Tenemos el 212 y vamos con el 212.
Claro que es posible hacerlo solo en el Mediterraneo onde las distancas no son muchas preocupante.
Si el CVBG tenes de ir en Atlantico o Oceano Indiano el 212 tenes de partir 3 dias antes.
Última edición por European el 21 Dic 2006, 21:43, editado 1 vez en total.
European escribió:Claro Kalma. Nosotros no tenemos SSN. Si se va a hazer un CVBG (muy dificil politicamente) el sub es importante. Tenemos el 212 y vamos con el 212.
No has entendido a lo que me refiero....Da igual
"Guarda con ello, como un tesoro, los nombres de los miles de héroes que cayeron por Marruecos y no contra Marruecos". General Alfredo Paniagua.
