Guerra en Afganistán
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Guerra en Afganistán
This is one of the most persistent myths of Afghan history. It has been trumpeted by every former mujahideen leader, from Osama bin Laden and Taliban commanders to the warlords in the current Afghan government. It is also accepted unthinkingly as part of the western narrative of the war. Some western politicians go so far as to say that the alleged Soviet defeat in Afghanistan helped to cause the collapse of the Soviet Union itself. On this they agree with Bin Laden and al-Qaida's other leaders, who claim they destroyed one superpower and are on their way to destroying another.
The reality is the Afghan mujahideen did not defeat the Soviets on the battlefield. They won some important encounters, notably in the Panjshir valley, but lost others. In sum, neither side defeated the other. The Soviets could have remained in Afghanistan for several more years but they decided to leave when Gorbachev calculated that the war had become a stalemate and was no longer worth the high price in men, money and international prestige. In private, US officials came to the same conclusion about Soviet strength, although they only admitted it publicly later. Morton Abramowitz, who directed the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the time, said in 1997: "In 1985, there was a real concern that the [mujahideen] were losing, that they were sort of being diminished, falling apart. Losses were high and their impact on the Soviets was not great."
4. The CIA's supply of Stinger missiles to the mujahideen forced the Soviets out of Afghanistan
This myth of the 1980s was given new life by George Crile's 2003 book Charlie Wilson's War and the 2007 film of the same name, starring Tom Hanks as the loud-mouthed congressman from Texas. Both book and movie claim that Wilson turned the tide of the war by persuading Ronald Reagan to supply the mujahideen with shoulder-fired missiles that could shoot down helicopters. The Stingers certainly forced a shift in Soviet tactics. Helicopter crews switched their operations to night raids since the mujahideen had no night-vision equipment. Pilots made bombing runs at greater height, thereby diminishing the accuracy of the attacks, but the rate of Soviet and Afghan aircraft losses did not change significantly from what it was in the first six years of the war.
The Soviet decision to withdraw from Afghanistan was made in October 1985, several months before Stinger missiles entered Afghanistan in significant quantities in the autumn of 1986. None of the secret Politburo discussions that have since been declassified mentioned the Stingers or any other shift in mujahideen equipment as the reason for the policy change from indefinite occupation to preparations for retreat.
5. After the Soviets withdrew, the west walked away
One of the most common promises western politicians made after they toppled the Taliban in 2001 was that "this time" the west would not walk away, "as we did after the Russians pulled out". Afghans were surprised to hear these promises. They remembered history in rather a different way. Far from forgetting about Afghanistan in February 1989, the US showed no let-up in its close involvement with the mujahideen. Washington blocked the Soviet-installed President Mohammad Najibullah's offers of concessions and negotiations and continued to arm the rebels and jihadis in the hope they would quickly overthrow his Moscow-backed regime.
This was one of the most damaging periods in recent Afghan history when the west and Pakistan, along with mujahideen intransigence, undermined the best chance of ending the country's civil war. The overall effect of these policies was to prolong and deepen Afghanistan's destruction, as Charles Cogan, CIA director of operations for the Middle East and south Asia, 1979–1984, later recognised. "I question whether we should have continued on this momentum, this inertia of aiding the mujahideen after the Soviets had left. I think that was probably, in retrospect, a mistake," he said.
6. The mujahideen overthrew Kabul's regime and won a major victory over Moscow
The key factor that undermined Najibullah was an announcement made in Moscow in September 1991, shortly after a coup mounted against Gorbachev by Soviet hard-liners collapsed. His longtime rival, Boris Yeltsin, who headed the Russian government, emerged in a dominant position. Yeltsin was determined to cut back on the country's international commitments and his government announced that from 1 January 1992, no more arms would be delivered to Kabul. Supplies of petrol, food and all other aid would also cease.
Un mapa de que año y cual es la realidad que refleja ni el famoso valle de panjshir estaba en manos de los Mujahideen en 1988 cuando los soviéticos se retiraron , simples mitos que repetidos una y otra vez se vuelven verdades ...
The reality is the Afghan mujahideen did not defeat the Soviets on the battlefield. They won some important encounters, notably in the Panjshir valley, but lost others. In sum, neither side defeated the other. The Soviets could have remained in Afghanistan for several more years but they decided to leave when Gorbachev calculated that the war had become a stalemate and was no longer worth the high price in men, money and international prestige. In private, US officials came to the same conclusion about Soviet strength, although they only admitted it publicly later. Morton Abramowitz, who directed the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the time, said in 1997: "In 1985, there was a real concern that the [mujahideen] were losing, that they were sort of being diminished, falling apart. Losses were high and their impact on the Soviets was not great."
4. The CIA's supply of Stinger missiles to the mujahideen forced the Soviets out of Afghanistan
This myth of the 1980s was given new life by George Crile's 2003 book Charlie Wilson's War and the 2007 film of the same name, starring Tom Hanks as the loud-mouthed congressman from Texas. Both book and movie claim that Wilson turned the tide of the war by persuading Ronald Reagan to supply the mujahideen with shoulder-fired missiles that could shoot down helicopters. The Stingers certainly forced a shift in Soviet tactics. Helicopter crews switched their operations to night raids since the mujahideen had no night-vision equipment. Pilots made bombing runs at greater height, thereby diminishing the accuracy of the attacks, but the rate of Soviet and Afghan aircraft losses did not change significantly from what it was in the first six years of the war.
The Soviet decision to withdraw from Afghanistan was made in October 1985, several months before Stinger missiles entered Afghanistan in significant quantities in the autumn of 1986. None of the secret Politburo discussions that have since been declassified mentioned the Stingers or any other shift in mujahideen equipment as the reason for the policy change from indefinite occupation to preparations for retreat.
5. After the Soviets withdrew, the west walked away
One of the most common promises western politicians made after they toppled the Taliban in 2001 was that "this time" the west would not walk away, "as we did after the Russians pulled out". Afghans were surprised to hear these promises. They remembered history in rather a different way. Far from forgetting about Afghanistan in February 1989, the US showed no let-up in its close involvement with the mujahideen. Washington blocked the Soviet-installed President Mohammad Najibullah's offers of concessions and negotiations and continued to arm the rebels and jihadis in the hope they would quickly overthrow his Moscow-backed regime.
This was one of the most damaging periods in recent Afghan history when the west and Pakistan, along with mujahideen intransigence, undermined the best chance of ending the country's civil war. The overall effect of these policies was to prolong and deepen Afghanistan's destruction, as Charles Cogan, CIA director of operations for the Middle East and south Asia, 1979–1984, later recognised. "I question whether we should have continued on this momentum, this inertia of aiding the mujahideen after the Soviets had left. I think that was probably, in retrospect, a mistake," he said.
6. The mujahideen overthrew Kabul's regime and won a major victory over Moscow
The key factor that undermined Najibullah was an announcement made in Moscow in September 1991, shortly after a coup mounted against Gorbachev by Soviet hard-liners collapsed. His longtime rival, Boris Yeltsin, who headed the Russian government, emerged in a dominant position. Yeltsin was determined to cut back on the country's international commitments and his government announced that from 1 January 1992, no more arms would be delivered to Kabul. Supplies of petrol, food and all other aid would also cease.
Un mapa de que año y cual es la realidad que refleja ni el famoso valle de panjshir estaba en manos de los Mujahideen en 1988 cuando los soviéticos se retiraron , simples mitos que repetidos una y otra vez se vuelven verdades ...
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Guerra en Afganistán
Es que nadie discute la derrota estadounidense en Vietnam...por cierto las bajas estadounidenses en Vietnam 58220, para ser más o menos exactos.Mantusa10 escribió: ↑23 Ago 2021, 21:58 El mito de la derrota Rusa en Afghanistan es solo eso mito perdieron 14 800 efectivos , USA perdio en Vietnam cerca de 50 000
Toma los libros y calcula cuantos aviones y helicopteros perdio Rusia en Afghanistan contra los que perdieron los norteamericanos en Vietnam y USA no fue derrotada en Vietnam ....
Las bajas soviéticas casi ni se saben. A los 15.000 teóricos muertos hay que sumar 50.000 heridos, casi 11.000 inválidos, 115.000 enfermos de hepatitis, 31.000 de tifus....
Material: un mínimo de 120 aviones, 333 helicópteros, 150 carros de combate, 1.300 vehículos blindados y de transporte de personal, 430 piezas de artillería y morteros y más de 11.000 camiones. Vamos una victoria en toda regla.
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Guerra en Afganistán
Esperamos con ansias, además de los copia y pega, el mapa ese del Politburo que muestra el absoluto control soviético de Afganistán
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Guerra en Afganistán
Las reuniones secretas del poliburo demuestran después de ser desclasificados por los soviéticos que la decisión de retirada fue tomada en 1985 , los números demuestran y la data que los Stinger no derribaron muchos mas helicopteros y aviones despues de 1985 que antes solo un ligero incremento que no fue para nada decisivo
Un ejército de 4 000 000 de efectivos con mas de 50 000 tanques y 30 000 piezas de artillería 14 000 aviones y helicopteros pierde 150 tanques 300 helicopteros y 120 aviones y fue derrotado
La verdad y todas esas perdidas en 10 años que tremenda derrota ...
Un ejército de 4 000 000 de efectivos con mas de 50 000 tanques y 30 000 piezas de artillería 14 000 aviones y helicopteros pierde 150 tanques 300 helicopteros y 120 aviones y fue derrotado
La verdad y todas esas perdidas en 10 años que tremenda derrota ...
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Guerra en Afganistán
Estamos de acuerdo un mapa de copia y pega , el artículo es del the guardián leer mas libros y menos Google ...
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Guerra en Afganistán
No sé si te has dado cuenta, pero la Unión Soviética ya no existe y gracias en parte a la Guerra de Afganistán
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Guerra en Afganistán
Que la unión sovietica no existe por Afghanistan otro mito sin base mencionado en el artículo , leer Google no es siempre lo mejor mucha desinformación ...
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Guerra en Afganistán
Por cierto, el Afganistán fueron enviados 642.000 militares soviéticos...así que el cálculo de bajas se hace sobre los que se envía, no sobre el total
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Guerra en Afganistán
Un superpower fue derrotado por perder 130 aviones 150 tanques y 300 helicopteros y 15000 efectivos , claro ese mismo superpower perdio 20 000 000 y la mitad de la base industrial y no perdio lo que hay que leer en Google ...
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Guerra en Afganistán
Lametablemente para la Unión Soviética y afortunadamente para el resto del mundo, los problemas de la Unión Soviética eran tantos y tan insostenibles que Afganistán fue la guinda de ese pastel
Última edición por VirtusF. el 23 Ago 2021, 22:30, editado 1 vez en total.
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Guerra en Afganistán
Superpower es el absurdo de pseudo argumentos y comparaciones absurdas
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Guerra en Afganistán
Claro es que esos 640 000 efectivos fueron en 10 años y no tenían una reserva de 4 000 000
Por eso desapareció la unión sovietica por muchísimos problemas internos no una guerrita colonial de 3 al cuartos ...
Por eso desapareció la unión sovietica por muchísimos problemas internos no una guerrita colonial de 3 al cuartos ...
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Guerra en Afganistán
Continuamos con el copia y pega de mapas sin mucho rigor si ninguno , claro que la comparación es absurda un superpower no fue derrotado con 20 000 000 de muertos pero 4 morones con AK si lo derrotan ...
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