Comparaciones y Curiosidades en Tanques II Guerra Mundial

[ACB, el Mutie]

Antes de nada, explicar un poco más la tabla anterior de las penetraciones del Jagdpanther. Tenía 80mm a 60º, casi igual al Panther que tenía 80mm a 55º (85mm en varios examinados), por lo que la protección es prácticamente la misma. Con los datos que hay sobre los IS-2 frente a los Panthers, esos 100m a los que el IS-2 podía penetrar al Jagdpanther son absurdos.

Tenemos las siguientes penetraciones frente al Panther:

- Frontalmente a 700m en los primeros enfrentamientos.
- Frontalmente a 1500m (el dato más popular).
- Frontalmente a +2500m (caso excepcional en Kubinka).

Con esto, tenemos de sobra para decir que esa tabla es totalmente irreal. No hay fuente de la susodicha tabla, por lo que podría haber sido elaborada por uno de los autores (Spielberger o Jentz (Hilary no creo)) o sacada de algún informe o papel de la época.

El siguiente aparato del libro es el Ferdinand. Los Tiger chupaban combustible en grandes cantidades, pero este "pequeñín" no se quedaba atrás:

Each of these motors was connected directly to a Siemens-Schuckert 500 Volt-Ampere generator. It passed itrs generated electricity to two 230-kilowatt electric motors, which directly affected the rear-mounted intermediate gears. Although this power was quite sufficient for operation the vehicle, the power loss was enormous. For 150 kilometers on the road or 90 km off the road, the vehicle needed up to 950 liters of gasoline.

Es una pena que no se sepa la cantidad de carros de combate destruidos por los Ferdinands de la División 653, porque sus reclamos durante 4 meses de combate fueron:

After four months of action, the Abteilung reported on 5 November the shooting down and destruction of 582 tanks, 344 tank destroyers, 133 guns, 103 Panzerbüchsen, three aircraft, three armored scout cars, and three assault guns.

Saludos

[ACB, el Mutie]

Hasta el momento, lo más interesante del libro está en los reportes de combate acerca del 656º Regimiento Pesado de Cazacarros. Este primer repote lo envía Guderian. Datos de las bajas y el por qué:

19 Ferdinand (mainly to direct artillery hits on the gratings, four without being fired on, through short circuits with ensuing fire).
10 Sturmpanzer (mainly exploded by crews after mine or artillery hits).

Timewise Losses to Mines:
40 Ferdinand as of 7/11, 20 repaired
17 Sturmpanzer as of 7/11, 9 repaired

El mayor problema frente a las minas, fue la falta de repuestos para las cadenas y sujeciones de las mismas. Guderian también hace un repaso a factores del Ferdinand y del Sturmpanzer:

1.Weapons:
The cannon has proved itself fully. A disadvantage has been the lack of a machine gun. To remove this desadvantage, 12 Panzer III tanks were assigned to the Ferdinands for close range defense and fighting against living targets.

2.Armor:
In no case has the front armor been penetrated. The side armor has been broken in some cases by 7.62 cm guns at close range. Engine covers and the roof of the fightinh compartment have been penetrated by artillery hits.

Recommendation: Cover the gratings with a roof of armor plates (15-20 mm), and protect the open sides of these roofs with wire gratings. This armor roof both protects the engine compartment from penetration by rain, and prevents the damage to electric lines from shirt circuits.

3.Radio:
Radio operation was very much disturbed by electric problemas. This condition worsens steadily.

4.Sturmpanzer:
This weapon has proved itself extraordinarily. The lack of a machine gun has been disadvantage. Either the cannon must be fired ar individual living targets, or they must not be fought with.

5.Tank Aprons:
Skirting plates for Panzer III, IV, and assault guns were declined by the troops before the operation, since they were soon stripped off in the terrain because of poor attachment.

The sure protection against Panzerbüchse hits, though, has clearly shown their wrth after the operation began. The troops are now very satisfied. The hanging of the skirting plates has been improved temporarily.

Seguiremos que hay varios informes sobre la actuación del Ferdinand.

[ACB, el Mutie]

Un segundo informe, esta vez de Uffz. Boehm dirigido al General Hartmann (Right Honorable General Gartmann!), explica un poco los resultados obtenidos:

On the first day of action, bunkers, infantry, artillery, and gun positions were fough successfully.

Our guns were under drumfire for three hours, and proved their imperviousness to fire. Only on the evening of the first day were a fre armored vehicles shot down; the others fled. The crews of the artillery and antitank guns fled before our fire after repeated ineffective fire.

Along with many batteries, antitank guns, and bunkers, 120 tanks were shot down by our Abteilung in the first action. In the first days our losses numbered 60 v.H., mostly from mines; everything was mined far and wide, and the mine dogs were insufficient. Also, one single minefield was unfortunatel driven onto! We had plenty to do, but did it nevertheless. Inspector-General Guderian was also with us. The Russians have improved and increased their weapons very much! They have artillery here as never before, and fire at individual soldiers! The antitank gun are also very numerous, and the performance of their Panzerbüchse is very good (until the end of firing, I counted 55 times at one Ferdinand).

In the first action we had six total losses; one of them, in a resting position, took a stray shot in the open driver's hatch, one dead, three wounded - burned out, one furned from unknown causes (suspected exhaust leak), one burned out (generator) when it had to move through a swamp, and three had to be exploded after being crippled by mines in an enemy counterattack. One had back luck; it was on a roadway when a Panzer III tank on the other side blew up from a direct hit and damaged the body of our Ferdinand in front, gun barrel runided, aiming device and also grating. In the other Abteilung, a heavy shell penetrated the roof.

Continuará...

Saludos

[ACB, el Mutie]

Seguimos:

In the second action in defense east of O ... we had better success, with only two total losses (one blown up). One gun shot down 22 tanks at once, the general number of kills was also quite high, and the Ferdinands contributed significantly to the defense, as before in the breakthrough. One gun leader shot down seven of nine approaching American tanks.

The cannon is very good; every tank, even KW II, and the approaching Americans are shot down with one shot or two. Only loading was hindered by explosive sherlls, as the cartridges got stuk, which was sometimes very regrettable. One gun barrel was hit, one already had a crack, one a bulge, and were exchanged with barrels from breakdowns; parts were also salvaged, since all breajdowns have been broughr back by us to date. Now they are making a protective plate over the grating, which I already suggested, since the Russians fire phosphorus shells and the aircraft drop them.

The "Ferdinand" has proven itself. It was deceisive here, and one cannot get anywhere against the enemies today without such a weapon against the masses of enemy tanks; assault guns are insufficient. The electric drive has proven itself fully, the drivers and crews were pleasantly surprised. Motor and eleectric failures were few. The motor is known to be weak for the tonnage, tracks somewhat narrow. If it is improved after the action, it would be "great"!

In one Ferdinand, the body of a Panzer IV was penetrated - by accident - gun cut in two, and antitank gun destroyed a leading wheel. One hull was penetrated below by a T34 at 400 meters (seven T34 encircled it), but the full shell fell in without damage. One Ferdinand stood sentry at night, was lamed and blinded by close-combat weapons, and finally plunged into a ditch. For such purposes it lacks a machine gun in front. The side ports are too small, one does not see the foresight.

Continuará...

Saludos

[Gammenon]

Por lo que veo en este informe se habla bastante bien del Ferdinand, incluso dice que el motor es fiabilillo y todo!

[alejandro_]

Por lo que veo en este informe se habla bastante bien del Ferdinand, incluso dice que el motor es fiabilillo y todo!

No daba problemas mientras los desplazamientos fuesen cortos y se pudiesen mantener con la intensidad que demandaban. En cuanto comenzaban las retiradas y evacuaciones porque los rusos estaban cercando una zona, la disponibilidad comenzaba a caer en picado. De esta manera se perdieron muchos entre Kursk y principios de 1944.

ACB, muy interesantes los informes del Jagdpanther.

Saludos.

[ACB, el Mutie]

Pronto volveré, o eso intentaré. Tengo a un familiar muy enfermo. Haré lo que pueda para seguir poniendo informes, que tengo varios por redactar. He estado leyendo (en el hospital, poco más se puede hacer) y ya sólo me quedan unos pocos sobre el Jagdtiger para terminar el libro.

Saludos

[nou_moles]

Pronto volveré, o eso intentaré. Tengo a un familiar muy enfermo. Haré lo que pueda para seguir poniendo informes, que tengo varios por redactar. He estado leyendo (en el hospital, poco más se puede hacer) y ya sólo me quedan unos pocos sobre el Jagdtiger para terminar el libro.

Saludos

Espero que tu familiar mejore.

[alejandro_]

Lo mismo digo. Recibe un fuerte abrazo de mi parte.

Saludos.

Alejandro.

[ACB, el Mutie]

Gracias, pero ha sido un Infarto Cerebral y el pronóstico es bastante malo. En fin. Mañana me han cubierto el turno de la mañana, así que hoy puedo quedarme un rato más antes de irme para cama (y mañana a poner la 2ª lavodora de mi vida y planchar ropa). Dejando mis cosas personales atrás, vamos al tema:

En el libro hay varios informes al final de cada cepítulo. Más que contar la historia operacional, el libro nos da cartas e informes alemanes sobre el rendimiento de sus cazacarros. He de decir, que sobre el jagdtiger, casi no hablan nada bueno, pero tanto en el Jagdpanther como el Ferdinand/Elefant, sí lo hacen. Sigamos con el Ferdinand donde lo habíamos dejado:

A big mistake of ours is that the enemy guns and tanks are left standing, instead of being brought to safety or destroyed by a recovery or destruction troops. For example, when 45 tanks were in no man's land in the evening, some 20 are missing in the morning; the Russians have taken them with their towing tractors at night. The tanks that were shot down last summer and left there came back into their hands during the winter! In several weeks, perhaps 50 v.H. are runing again, and we ask ourselves where so many come from, that costs work and blood. For example, in our first action, shot-down Russian tanks were left standing, also guns and antitank guns, cometimes intact and with ammunition, the mines lay in layers. The front had to be taken again, and everything came back into their hands. It was the same here tii; The American tanks were all left standing. We should have thought of taking the things as raw material; the new weapons can be reused as raw material (which is often hard for us to get), and good raw material for the making of new heavy weapons, a thousand tons could be briught in like that, and the enemy would have lost the chance to cover his losses by repairs or scavenging in a short time. There are already scrap collecting stations, but it could be carried on more intensively; empty trucks are sometimes at statins for a long time; they could meanwhile have been loaded. As I heard, all briken-down Ferdinands should be recovered by our Abteilung. They arrived rather late and are too few; whenever we needed more of them, we would have made progress; we hope the new type is soon ready for production. I have not been able to find a place.

Otherwise I am doing well, and I also hope the General is healthy again

(signed) Uffz. Boehm.

Para terminar, otra tabla de penetraciones que nos deja el autor sin especificar su procedencia. Como antes, los valores son frontales. Difícilmente un IS-2 iba a penetrar 200mm de acero a 500m como parece indicarnos esta gráfica:



En fin, otra vez nos pone una tabla poco contrastada y de escaso valor para los vardaderos aficionados del tema. Por cierto, esos 60º de los que habla, son 30º de la vertical. No sabemos con certeza cómo interpretar los datos, pero parece que se refiere a que inclinan al carro "objetivo" 30º respecto al "cazador".

Saludos

[ACB, el Mutie]

Mi última aportación hasta mañana. Seguimos con el mismo tema:

Vamos con el 3º reporte de guerra (son 8 sobre el Ferdinand):

On account of the tactical situation, the Regiment has been in action without interruption since 5 July. Only the 1st Abteilung could be given 24 hours of technical rest once.

Since the Ferdinand funs, as well as the Sturmpanzer, show remarkably many technical weaknesses, it was foreseen that this type of armored vehicle should be withdrawn for 2 to 3 days after 3 or 5 days of action, and for longer periods after longer action, in order to get them back into technical order.

The workshops have worked day and night to repair the breakdowns, so that enough vehicles move against the enemy.

Through the excessive technical demands on all the vehicles - because of the tactical situation - they all really ought to be overhauled every 13-20 days. The technical condition is now thus, that daily the cases increase in which repaired vehicles on their way from the workshop to the troops break down with new or other technical defects.

An action planned in advance as to numbers, the prerequisite of armored vehicles ready for action, has this become impossible.

Only such vehicles can be recknoed on for action against the enemy as have survived the trip back to the front after being repaired.

I therefore report to the Pz.A.O.K.2 that in the shirtest possible time my Regiment will, for technical reasons, not be ready for action, if it cannot be made possible to give all vehicles at least one week of time for thorought repairs.

The Regiment still has a total of 54 Ferdinands (four of them conditionally) and 18 assault guns. These "action-ready" vehicles also have been stressed to the limit.

It is thus urged that the Ferdinands be taken out of the HKL, the differently formed groups be dissolved, and onlu three groups be kept 5 to 8 kilometers behind the front as a mobile reserve. All other Ferdinands go to the workshops. Repaired Ferdinands can then be exchanged for those on the front.

El informe tiene fecha del 24 de Julio de 1943.

Para el próximo post analizaremos a fondo las parte del Ferdinand que daban problemas y están recogidas en otro informe (el siguiente a este en el libro).

Saludos

[ACB, el Mutie]

Un inciso para poner un par de cosas del libro "Eastern Front Combat" de Stackpole. Comentarios de alemanes:

El primero relata lo que es la pura realidad. No se le puede echar la culpa a los Rumanos por sus faltas:

When the names of places, units, time, and losses get here in reports, it is clear to all at the divisional command post that the Romanians have far too little heavy weapons, far to few armor-piercing weapons, to be able to face these Soviet attacks with any success.

Y unos comentarios sobre la defensa. Atentos que hay algo interesante sobre cómo defender con un tanque, con gran ventaja sobre un cazatanques:

Now we have arrived in the suburbs of the city and in the echeloned and well-crafted field fortifications in front of us. Here it becomes clear to all of us why the Russian resistance is so successful. Dug-in tanks are scarcely visible, withe their guns aimed just over the cover. Fleamethrowers turn the entire killing ground that we have to cross into a sheet of flame.

Tenía unos marcadores antiguos con algunas anotaciones. Se exponen las raciones diarias en los momentos más difíciles: 100 grams of bread and 60 grams of meat or lard per day.

Comentan un incidente extraño con un T-34 que les aparecía y desaparecía, provocando según ellos.

The combat group had not had an easy time of it. The T-34 had continued to provoke and ventured out more and more. This was too much for the three Panzer IIIs, and the first shells left the barrels. The T-34 was hit but not wounded. As the Russian subsequently fired, it was in the right position for the Panzer IV with the long barrel. The first shell was a direct hit and before the T-34 could turn around and make himself scarce, the second hit him and put an end to him.

Y esto ocurrió durante Stalingrado, donde el KwK40 todavía era muy escaso.

Saludos

[ACB, el Mutie]

Antes de seguir, un par de tablas del libro "Russian Tanks of World War II - Stalin's Armoured Might":





Saludos

[ACB, el Mutie]

Como se que están interesantes los informes, os voy a dejar alguno más (no tengo ganas de ir a planchar aun... y luego al hospital, así que este es mi último comentario hasta mañana):

Con fecha 25 de Julio de 1943:

Our vehicles are now in action for three weeks and have, with the previously driven kilometers, covered an average of 500 km. I have gathered enough experience that I can draw you a picture of the maintenance or the faults of our vehicles. In agreement with the commanders of the Abteilung, I can say that the weapon had success, and it was regretted by all that only the small numbers were available. With and average number of 15 kills per vehicle, one may well speak of success. It must higher today. Unfortunately, the greater part of all vehicles is almost always being repaired. This condition, moreover, worsens from day to day, because with the growing wear of all parts, the supply of spare parts, much too short in any case, is used up. Supplying with spare parts has almost never taken place to date. Of the original supply of 44 vehicles, 17 are lacking as of today. Of them, seven were given to the other Abteilung on orders from the Regiment; the other ten had to be listed as total losses. Next I shall report to you on the most common damages and problems.

Running Gear (Wheel Trucks):

Counter to expectations, no damage has been done through overstressing. The soft ground may have played an important role. The consumption of rubber buffers (especially on the two rear wheel trucks) was very great. Nuts have not loosened from bolts, although a great number of vehicles have the old sheet metal shielding. Changing rolled-in running rings must now be carried out in great numbers.

Spring mounts have no longer broken since Neusiedl. Gear supports hold trouble-free. From enemy action, some 20 road wheels (swinging arms with spring mounts) and a great number of rollers have become usable. Damaged swinging arms, rubbed spring cassings, torn-off, often misshapen wheels, including the nuts, were the most common type of damage, usually caused by mines. The fifth road wheel, because of the high heat, retains no grease.

Trunnion-bearing breakage of the front road wheels is probably also attributable to mines. Unfortunately, replacements were and are not available in sufficient numbers. When possible, parts from failed vehicles have been used.

Intermediate Drive Gears:

Except for one case in Neusiedl, which was surely mentioned by Mr. Zadrik, no trouble to date. Worn track attachment screws are sufficiently known to you.

Steering with Brakes

Several cases of brake trouble in Neusiedl are known to Mr. Zadnik. No difficulties since then. In two vehicles, which stayed in action with daamge for one or two days, a brake drum had been shot through. The inner parts were naturally destroyed completely.

Hull

Has proved to be almost impervious to shots. A shot (7.62 cm (en el texto ponía mm pero seguro que está mal)) through the side in the area of the rear ventilator driveshafts left everything, making only afre scars. This shot also remained without bad results. Practice has shown that the gratings are a vulnerable spot, for aside from incendiaries, an artillery shot or bomb hitting on or in the vicinity of the gratings sets the vehicle on fire. The splinters brek into the fuelt tanks or damage other importants parts, such as water pipes. The temperature in the engine compartment is so high that in some cases the fuel in the pipes began to boil. The attachment of winches, tools, and cables outside the hull was a mistake. It was foreseen that these objects were demolished in a short time.

Boy

Was also penetrated on the side in some cases. The sealing of the body and the gratings on the hull are extremely faulty, or missing altogether. Through the ball mantlet of the gun barrel, gine but not innocuous splinters penetrate.

There were wounded men among the crews. The temperature in the fighting vompartment is still too hot. It has happened that the ammunition for flare pistols has ignited itself. According to the commanders and aiming gunners, the warming of the shells stored on the floor leadt to shots going too far.

Gasoline Engines

Motor failures have become especially numeous in the last days. The following damages occur: bent or torn-off valves, piston broke as a result; bent or torn-off connecting rods; and cracked cylinder heads. I am of the opinion that too little power is the main cause of these phenomena. Cracks and unsealed cylinder liners are surely a result of overheating. A water loss of ten liters is, based on experience, not bearable. The seals on the exhaust manifold hold for only a short time. This is a constant fire hazard. The installation of the exhaust pipes is very difficult and time consuming work, as they are known to be enaccessible. At this time it is impossible to replace defective motors, because replacement motors are lacking.

Seguiremos.

Saludos

[ACB, el Mutie]

Bueno, aun me sobró algo de tiempo:

Cooling:

Unsealed and damaged radiators have already caused very much work. The radiators generally leak in the soldering of the lower brace. I assume that the sort, stiff pipe connection between the lower braces of the two radiators is the cause. In knocked-out ventilators, the drive flange has been welded to the ventilator drive. Replacement parts for them are lacking.

Generators, Electric Motors:

We had the last problem with a generator in Neusiedl. It was again the known connection in the gauge contact, still located below. Since then, the generators have run problem free. It must, though, be noted that we have had mostly dry weather to date, and that the vehicles very seldom cool off.

On the other hand, dust accumulation is very considerable, especially in the generators, although it does not seem to impede functioning.

Gearshift:

Has also remained without problems worth mentioning. In three vehicles, a reversing field regulator has been replaced. Here, too, sealing from dust leaves much to be desired.

Dynamos, Batteries:

The dynamo with reversed turning direction has caused major complications. The total breakdown of one vehicle is also attributable to taht. Every day there were several vehicles with burned-out insulation, and thus dead batteries.

Mr. Zadnik will have reported to you already. We have now gone over to installing the dynamos with their former turning direction, and have already done this work on nine vehicles. The problems with them have stopped. Mr. Scharpf of the Bosch firm, who has stood by us and advised us in this situation, was unfortunately killed. The attachment of the batteries is bad. The first attack day alone cost us over thirty batteries. Every mine we hit has cost us at least one battery, and often all of them. In all cases, the casings were cracjed or completely destroyed. Shots have often had the same effect. The two radio batteries have been strained very much, and thus must often be recharged outside the vehicle.

Telecin Shafts, Tahometers:

Disturbances to telecin shafts also occur that can be overcome only with the greatest difficulty, for not the slightest spare part has come into our hands. Tachometers have broken down on many vehicles. These vehicles run without a tacho. Such instruments, ehich are also so hard to get, must function with the greatest precision, for in action there is no time to repair them.

Gun:

The cannon is very good in tis effect, but is almost constantly in need of repairs. For as yet unknown reasons, the riflings of the barrel break out, and the cartridge ejector does not function. The cartridges must often be removed with hammer and chisel. Driving through in combat with the barrel unsupported knocks out the elevation and traversing machines, so that at the muzzle a dead area up to 20 cm has been found. The heating of the entire vehicle often makes theaiming machines jam. Adjustement has to be made all over again after a short time. The front barrel brace was shot away in some cases. A precise report has been given by Staff Sergeant Br. to the commander of Abteilung 653 to be passed on further.

Y con esto terminamos el reporte 4º.

Saludos